Talk Copy to Me | Content + Copywriting Podcast
Talk Copy to Me is your go-to resource for transforming your business's message into meaningful connections and measurable results. Whether you're diving into SEO, crafting website copy that converts, or building your brand's story, each episode delivers actionable strategies you can implement right away.
Your host, Erin Ollila, is a sought-after content strategist and SEO expert who's helped brands like Oracle, Amazon, Hills Pet—as well as many other billion-dollar brands and itty bitty businesses—achieve tens of thousands of monthly website visits...and, more importantly, conversions.
With an M.F.A. in Creative Writing and years of experience blending data-driven strategies with authentic storytelling, Erin brings both expertise and approachability to every episode.
This show is crafted specifically for small business owners, solopreneurs, creatives, and growing companies who know they need to level up their marketing but feel overwhelmed by where to start.
No more drowning in marketing buzzwords or getting lost in technical jargon. Erin and her guests break down complex topics into clear, implementable steps that fit your busy schedule and business goals.
New episodes release weekly.
Learn more and access show notes at erinollila.com/podcast/
Talk Copy to Me | Content + Copywriting Podcast
Homepage Hierarchy: The Framework That Makes Visitors Stay and Convert
When someone lands on your homepage, they make a decision in about three seconds—stay or leave. That's it. Three seconds to convince them they're in the right place.
But here's what I see constantly: homepages organized around what a business wants to say, not what the visitor actually needs to know. And when this happens the visitor can't figure out if they're in the right place, and instead of staying, they leave.
In this episode, I'll share a framework for organizing your homepage so visitors quickly decide they're in the right place and know what to do next. I'll cover what needs to be above the fold (the four non-negotiables), the logical flow that tells a story, and the common mistakes that make people bounce. If you've been following this series on website confidence, this episode brings everything together with a practical framework you can implement right now.
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EPISODE 169.
Read the show notes and view the full transcript here:
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Here's the info on your host, Erin Ollila
Erin Ollila believes in the power of words and how a message can inform – and even transform – its intended audience. She graduated from Fairfield University with an M.F.A. in Creative Writing, and went on to co-found Spry, an award-winning online literary journal.
When Erin’s not helping her clients understand their website data or improve their website copy, you can catch her hosting the Talk Copy to Me podcast and guesting on shows such as Profit is a Choice, Mindful Marketing, The Power in Purpose, and Business-First Creatives.
Stay in touch with Erin Ollila, SEO website copywriter:
• Learn more about my VIP intensive options or just book a strategy session to get started right away
• Visit Erin's website to learn more about her business, services, and products
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Register for Homepage Hot Seat
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2025
Time: 1:00 PM EST
Learn what essential homepage elements make visitors convert, watch live homepage reviews, and discover the simple updates you can make to improve conversions without a complete redesign.
Register here: https://erinollila.com/webinar-homepage-hot-seat/
When someone lands on your webpage, they make a decision in about three seconds or less on whether they should stay or leave. Keep reading or just bounce that is it, three seconds to convince them that they are in the right place. And here's what I see all the time. Homepage that are organized around what a business wants to say, not what the visitor actually needs to know. So what happens? The visitor lands, they can't figure out if they're in the right place and instead of staying, they leave. If your homepage doesn't answer their questions in those first few seconds, you lose them. Today we're gonna talk about what actually needs to be on your homepage, in what order, and why it matters so much. All right, so we have been building toward this episode today is about how I want you to think about organizing your homepage to deliver on all of the things we've formally said. You know, not to have those silent killers. How to make sure we're speaking to premium clients because your homepage has one job. And that job is to help visitors quickly decide if they are in the right place and what they need to do next if they are in the right place. That's it. It is not about telling your businesses' entire story or listing every service you offer. It's not about explaining processes or philosophies. It is about helping someone make a fast decision. Is this for me? Should I keep reading? What do I do next? And structure matters so much more than you might think. Visitors don't necessarily read your homepage or at least all of the words on your homepage. They scan your homepage, they're moving fast, looking for specific information, and they're following a visual hierarchy, meaning. They're gonna look where you guide their eyes. If the most important information isn't where they're naturally looking, or if it's hidden away in a paragraph somewhere, they're not gonna find the information they need. They're gonna miss it. Order really matters here. What comes first, what comes second? What is most prominently shown? So let's start with the above the fold. If you are not familiar with this term, way back in the days of newspapers above the fold, literally meant what goes on the front page of a newspaper before it is folded in half. It is the name of the newspaper, it is the date that it was printed. It is the top stories, or at least headlines of the top stories with intros of what to expect. And it also dictates where to find the rest of the story on the following pages. Your website should act that same way, it is what you see before you scroll down the page. Many people also call this a hero section. Could be, but sometimes hero sections do not actually make it to the bottom of the screen. They may be, , shorter, let's say, and you might move into a copy section that is also seen on the, on the screen. So anything. Your audience gets served up as soon as they click onto your homepage is what we're considering above the fold. And why is this important? Well, because most people don't scroll, or if they scroll, they're doing it very slightly because if they cannot figure out what, from what's already visible to them, whether they're in the right place, they don't want to waste their time.. I think last episode I mentioned that I was trying to be as technical as possible here. So you can just come to the homepage, hot seat and enjoy yourself. So let's do that. What needs to be above the fold? Well, there are four non-negotiables. The first is that you need a clear headline that is most likely going to be about an outcome. This may or may not be about you. It may or may not be about your client, but it's very often about transformation or what is possible. It's the first thing people read, so it needs to answer two questions. One, am I in the right place? Two, what is in this for me? It's really helpful if your headline speaks to an outcome or a problem they want to solve or the end result they're hoping for. Having that clear, having that in there in specific, following all these best practices that we've been talking about these past couple of episodes, lets your website visitor decide whether they are in the right place and whether they should keep reading. And if you're worried about what to say in your heading or that you don't have enough space, there are generally two other types of, opportunities for adding copy into a hero. Section. One is your eyebrow copy. Eyebrow copy is generally just a couple words. They're very often keyword phrases. So they could be used for SEO and they just help. Set the stage. The second is your sub headline. This is a support of your main headline. Whatever you do, do not allow your sub headline to completely like run its own race. Your subhead gives you an opportunity to expand on your heading, to clarify anything. And it's a good chance to really just, drive home a point. And your subhead isn't the only opportunity to add a little more text in there because you should have one clear call to action. It needs to be visible to be prominent. And tell your visitor exactly what to do next. Now, notice I said one call to action. I vowed when I wrote my, outline ish script for this episode that I would tell you the rules and also, well, I want you to understand the rules so you can break them and, and here's an example. I really don't want you guys to run with this, but hear me out. Here is an example of a potential rule break. There have been times writing for clients that I have used more than one call to action in the above the fold section Now. Don't get too excited . The vast majority of the time, you are not gonna have multiple calls to actions. I mentioned the dog grooming and boarding facility that I worked with last year. Loved working with them. Their site turned out so good., Don't remember if I actually did this, but , one way that I could have done there, hero section, call to action was to have two buttons. One that said dog grooming and one that said dog boarding, so that the. Actual type of client that was coming to their website for those things could easily direct themself to the page that they needed because not all dog boarding families will want to put their dog in dog gate daycare. Similarly, if you're an individual looking for dog daycare, that does not mean you want to give your dog away for a weekend or a week and have them boarded, right? So generally, if someone's finding that website for the first time, they would like to self segment onto one of those two pages because they already know what they want to do. Your website, your business may not have the opportunity to do that. So telling you the rule, the rule is one call to action. For the most part. I would like you to stick with that. Feel free to send me a message on social media and ask me if it's okay to break this rule. But because I promised to tell you when you could bend rules, here is an opportunity and if there's space, which they're usually a space, but if there's space, it would be so great for you to have a credibility indicator. Generally, I call these merit badges and they could be client logos. They could be as seen in badges. It could also be maybe the years in business. It could be the amount of students you've served. It could be the number of products you sold, or it could be a short but yet powerful testimonial. It just needs to be present to give your visitor that feeling of legitimacy, to have them begin to trust you right away. So. What are we talking about here? We're talking about your headline, your eyebrow copy, your subhead, your call to action, and your credibility indicators. That's five different things that have to happen at the very top of your screen without anyone be having the opportunity to scroll or or click elsewhere. And I didn't even mention the menu bar. Menu bars are often neglected and never thought of, but let me tell you, friends, they. Vastly influence the user experience, the site navigation that you have, because you have the opportunity to direct people in the route you want them to take. Now in the early days of this podcast, honestly it could have been episode two or four. I, I have to look it up, but it was literally one of the first podcast episodes that I published. I talked about homepages and in that episode I framed it where we had what happened at the very top of the page and what happened at the very bottom in the footer and emphasized that every single thing that fell in between those two bookends could be different for every business. I'll give you a generalized template that I think that is easy to adjust depending on the needs of your business. Once you finish the above the full section, I want you to think about flow and let flow be your driving decision maker. Often on many homepages, we will see the problem or context. It doesn't have to be a problem, come up first, and this is where you acknowledge what it is that they're doing there on your website. If it is a problem, you can show them that you understand where they're at. You want your visitor to feel seen, and you want them to keep reading, right? I mean, we only have three seconds on the above the fold when they're scrolling down. We really just want to have them move throughout the entire page, like as if they were making little check boxes that said. Oh yes, I'm in the right spot. Oh, there was another checkbox. They understand me. Oh, there's a checkbox. That's what I need, right? Oh, there's a checkbox. There's a checkbox because that person has expertise. Oh, one more checkbox. Because their client who had the nicest things to say about them is, sounds so much like me. That's the same problem I'm having, right? Excuse my little boop bbo. Check boxes, but think of it. Think of flow as your driving factor. If we just acknowledge their problem or gave some context, we then want to present a solution or an approach. And that could be where you are explaining, how you help, what your methodology is. And again, not every detail. Goodness gracious. Please do not put a framework on your homepage. You just want to make it clear that you have a process. And that you've done this sort of thing before. Then once you've presented what the solution is, you now have to present your unique positioning. Why your business, specifically, what makes your approach different? What is your level of, expertise or your background? You know, this does not have to be a full life story in any way, shape, or form,, and let's not forget about our another section, and that would be social proof. And that is where you get to show evidence that your approach. And your expertise can work for them. You do this with your testimonials and, and even more points if your testimonials have those specific results. You do it with highlights from case studies, showcasing your client logos. It would be awesome if you had a before or after example this is where you can overcome any type of skepticism they may still have and continue to build trust. People want proof that you have done this before with people like them. And let's not forget that we need to end the page with clear next steps. Go ahead and reiterate your main call to action. Make it easy for them to take action. And whatever you do, audit your page to remove any friction or confusion about what happens next. Now you might be thinking to yourself, "goodness gracious, Erin, you did not mention any of my favorite parts of my homepage. I have blog posts. I really nurture my blog, and I really want to showcase that content to my visitors." You might be saying, "I have a podcast. I have a podcast player that I embed to my homepage." You might be saying, "I have my shop highlights on my, homepage, and people can scan through them and go directly to my shop." My answer. Cool. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Great. Lovely. They might fit on your homepage, but there is a logic to the flow that I just shared with you. Because each section naturally leads to the next. You tell a story on your homepage when you can checkbox all of those things that I told you. And if your podcast, your blog, any of these things, your shop can supplement that story, add them into the flow that already exist. If they cannot, I want you to think of them as just additions to the page and you have to decide then whether they belong there. So I say that there is a flow. You don't believe me. Let me tell you what it is. That story that you sharing is one. Here is the problem that you are facing. Two, here is how I solve it. Three, here is why I am the right person or right business to work with. Four, here is proof that this works and five here is what to do now. It is not random. It is intentional. If you are presenting what people are experiencing, if you are presenting a solution, if you are showcasing expertise, if you are sharing social proof, and if you are giving clear directions on how to move forward, people are going to feel so confident that you are the right person to work with Now. I do see a lot of mistakes that I think can be easy fixes. Additionally, they are easy fixes that make huge differences. The first one, the one that's most common is to lead with your story instead of the need of the person who's viewing your website. Remember, they are here to make sure that they're in the right, right spot. They want to know that you understand what the heck is going on before they make any decision to learn about you or your business. So if everything is an I sentence, literally meaning the word I starts all of your sentences, instead of doing what I suggested, what you are doing is you're making. Everything about you. And if that website visitor does not know you and does not care about you, they, they don't care to learn more. They want to know that you, you, or your business are the place that they need. It is about them, not about you. Something else that I see that I think is an easy fix is using either vague or very clever headlines that don't quite actually say anything like, um, unlock your potential or transform your business. Be your best self. That sounds nice. That sounds fun. But, they communicate nothing. Why does this fail? Because it's creating confusion and it's, you know, it's honestly, it's one of those silent killers we talked about in a couple episodes ago. We need to be specific. We need to always lead with clarity. So making some adjustments, making them clearer, not only helps that new visitor learn about your business, but it could help with SEO if you're using strategic keywords. Remember I told you before you could bend the rules a little bit with your calls to action at the top. Well, a mistake I see often is too many calls to action. Book a call, download my guide, join my email list, read my blogs, listen to my podcast, buy my products, come and pay for my services, like learn more about me. Like that's a million. And yes, your homepage has so much more. It's leniency for having multiple calls to action compared to other pages, but we need to think about. Why we're directing these people onto those different areas. You need to know exactly why all of the calls to action there, but most specifically that they have a flow and are introduced at the correct time. I mean on, on the same spiel about CTAs. Don't hide them, please. I see so many calls to action just hidden, especially on homepage. I think people just think that, well, because there is a menu that people will continue to scroll back up and look wherever they want to go. But again, you are the guide on the homepage. You are their guide, you are their concierge, you are their travel advisor, right? You are directing them exactly where you need them to go. If you do not give them any directions, if you allow them to scramble around on your homepage willy-nilly, you're, you're putting a lot of trust in them to actually get to a place that they can convert. And I wanna talk about something that you might think a copywriter is not thinking of. But, and while I can't speak for other copywriters, it is something that significantly influences all of the decisions that I'm making when I'm writing copy on any page, but ver but very specifically, so the homepage, and that is, I never. Ever want there to be walls of text on a homepage? Visual hierarchy is just as important as messaging hierarchy, so I've already taught e messaging hierarchy with that flow that I mentioned before. And what goes on the page visual hierarchy is, , determining the weight that all of those words get. It is making sure that there is enough white space, it's making things scannable. When everything's the same size or the same weight, or there aren't really clear breaks or sections. Nothing stands out, right?. So we again want to direct people places we do that by using headers, having white space and giving them just some visual breaks. Again, usually with white space or with things like bullet points or icons so we can guide their eyes to the important stuff. Your homepage structure is not just about aesthetics. It's not just design preferences, and it's also not just words. They are all so important and directly impact whether people will convert or they'll bounce. And I think it's important before we kind of sum things up, in this episode is to talk about mobile the reality is that most of your traffic is coming from mobile devices. Yet most people only design and test their websites on desktop computers. Which means your mobile homepage experience might be completely different from what you're seeing on your laptop, and you might not even know it. What changes on mobile? Well, that above the fold that we talked about is even smaller on a phone screen. It could be just your headline it, or if it is not actually moly responsive, it could just be a w. Being huge picture of your face with no words. Long paragraphs are hard to read on a small screen. Calls to action might be not obvious at all or too obvious. Images might not display the same way, or they might not scale properly. So always take a tablet and always take a a phone to review every single page of your website and absolutely for your homepage, because generally that is the first landing spot that people will see and be introduced to you. Don't just assume that it looks fine because it looks fine on your computer. Now you can audit your homepage on your own there. At this point you have the complete framework. I know it might feel like there's gaps in there.'cause you might say, do I really need an about section? Like, wait, you didn't tell me where to actually put the the services. Did the services go on the page? Or you could say any of those things, but I did that flow that I mentioned is your answer if it fits in one of those sections. That's it. That's the framework. You know what to do. You can identify now after these past couple episodes what went wrong. You know what needs to be adjusted, what your premium clients want to see, how to organize things, and that is really all that you need to successfully improve your website. But I know personally that seeing these things, not just hearing them love my podcast, love all podcast, but sometimes just seeing them being in the room when you have an expert show what changes that need to be made show how to make those changes is so helpful. You wanna join me in the room next week? I would love to have you at the homepage hot seat.. I will be reviewing websites, talking about what, what they did really well, talking about what changes I would make, and reviewing ways that you can improve your homepage on your own, because that is the key. That's why I've had all of these episodes. I want you to feel confident to know that you do not need to be a writer. In order to improve your website, you can do it. Hopefully I'll see you at Homepage Hot Seat, and if not, I'll see you here next week where we keep talking. Copy.